Alpha 2013-04-02

[Tom]

Read the included instructions.txt and changelog.txt.
Discuss anything related to this build right here.

Main focus of this build is improved performance and the new column system.

[mrfox]

General Experience:
- better overall stability
- performance improvements are really noticeable (even on slower computers)
- scanning feels a lot faster

Experienced bugs:
- music seems to lag sometimes (maybe it's an issue on my side, not sure)
- can't play music from hidden folders
- sometimes I have to repeat drag and drop with music from a network share to actually add it to the playlist

Other, more like feature a request:
- mka support

[Tom]

- music seems to lag sometimes (maybe it's an issue on my side, not sure)

Can you explain further? What kind of lag?

[mrfox]

- music seems to lag sometimes (maybe it's an issue on my side, not sure)

Can you explain further? What kind of lag?

It's a random short crack or stop during playback (experienced on 2 computers). Could be an unlucky driver issue or something though.

[Tom]

- music seems to lag sometimes (maybe it's an issue on my side, not sure)

Can you explain further? What kind of lag?

It's a random short crack or stop during playback (experienced on 2 computers). Could be an unlucky driver issue or something though.

I haven't experienced anything like this before on my test systems. With buffer underruns audio usually hangs in a loop, but that's it. Does this happen on low-end machines?

[mrfox]

I haven't experienced anything like this before on my test systems. With buffer underruns audio usually hangs in a loop, but that's it. Does this happen on low-end machines?

Actually both on low-end and high-end. By the way on my work computer (low-end one) I usually listen to music shared over network (smb).

On my home PC the issue seems to be gone (or got really rare) after setting the bit rate to 16 bit in windows audio settings. I'll try the same tomorrow at work and report back my findings.

[Tom]

Actually both on low-end and high-end. By the way on my work computer (low-end one) I usually listen to music shared over network (smb).

On my home PC the issue seems to be gone (or got really rare) after setting the bit rate to 16 bit in windows audio settings. I'll try the same tomorrow at work and report back my findings.

Alright, thanks!

[Andreasvb]

Here's what I've found so far.

Bug:
- Seems the Spectrum analyzer (linear) doesn't show the correct range, goes only up to 16028.8. Maybe intended for linear?
- When changing the sort order on either column it doesn't remember the direction when changing another one. Every other is up, down, up down... If you change direction it will be down, up, down, up...
- You can loop the list when pressing down key (pressing down on the last will take you to the first one), but not when doing same with up key.
- Progress bar not visible in Windows' taskbar if you've Resonic focused.
- No menu when you right click on Volume bar on the filled part.

Req:
- Custom columns would be nice (choose own tags), but this is a good start.
- Tag editing. ID3, Vorbis comments etc.
- When changing volume, make it possible to click and drag on the the filled part to jump directly to that value like you can on the light part.

[Tom]

- Seems the Spectrum analyzer (linear) doesn't show the correct range, goes only up to 16028.8. Maybe intended for linear?

Intentionally cut off @ 16k, yes, as most music is cut off at 16k (or 18k) anyways. Full range is reserved for the Pro.

When changing the sort order on either column it doesn't remember the direction when changing another one. Every other is up, down, up down... If you change direction it will be down, up, down, up...

Same as in regular folders in Explorer, ain't it?

- You can loop the list when pressing down key (pressing down on the last will take you to the first one), but not when doing same with up key.

Yep, needs to remind me to add a setting: stop, flip, continue in next folder.

Progress bar not visible in Windows' taskbar if you've Resonic focused.

Intended, but gets an option.

No menu when you right click on Volume bar on the filled part.
- When changing volume, make it possible to click and drag on the the filled part to jump directly to that value like you can on the light part.

Well, that's a weird one, because you should be able to click anywhere into the volume bar and jump directly to that volume. It seems it's different for you?

[Andreasvb]

Intentionally cut off @ 16k, yes, as most music is cut off at 16k (or 18k) anyways. Full range is reserved for the Pro.

Fair enough.

Same as in regular folders in Explorer, ain't it?

Seems like that.

Intended, but gets an option.

Thanks.

Well, that's a weird one, because you should be able to click anywhere into the volume bar and jump directly to that volume. It seems it's different for you?

Don't know, works now. Changed theme. Could've been after I came home after using TeamViewer, it turns off Aero.
- Noticed that the Sleep Timer's background isn't black anymore, can't see anything. Works in latest alpha 755.

[caseya21]

I have been using the pre release version for a day or so now, and I have not noticed any major bugs. Everything works well how I would normally use it, but I will try doing some things out of my norm to see if anything happens. So far so good for me. Works like a charm.

[Tom]

@caseya21: Great!

What's your thoughts on the new columns vs. auto-resizing columns of the previous releases? Trying to do both, somehow.

[caseya21]

@caseya21: Great!

What's your thoughts on the new columns vs. auto-resizing columns of the previous releases? Trying to do both, somehow.

I think the new columns are great, I like that you can get rid of some categories. Some other category options would be nice, like one showing ratings or play count for example. I have also noticed the scans are alot quicker than the previous version. I also like the option to hide the mouse cursor inside the visualization, works great !

I am not sure if it has been mentioned, probably has but I was thinking if there was a way to search either within a folder or within a directory. I think would be useful. Its not that important because you can search through windows pretty easily, but maybe somewhere down the line it could be a nice touch. Not sure if that is easy or hard to implement.

On your part when you are posting these pre-releases in the future, it might be nice to know if there is a feature or option you are specifically worried about or would like an opinion on so we can target that and come back with specific feedback.

[Andreasvb]

If for auto-resizing, make so it compacts the column to the smallest width depending of amount of length of the longest word/content.

Not sure what would be best, maybe have a weight on what columns are more important and hide others depending how wide/narrow the window is?

Rearranging columns would be good.


Also, found another small audio player. Hokrain.
It loads folders and scans waveform really fast.
The theming and behaviour of the window is also a bit out of the regular.
It feels really smooth as well.

[Tom]

I think the new columns are great, I like that you can get rid of some categories. Some other category options would be nice, like one showing ratings or play count for example.

Yep, (reading) ratings is basically done, but not enabled. I'll put it into the next pre for testing. It's not in the public releases because writing ratings is not yet supported, which might confuse some users.

I am not sure if it has been mentioned, probably has but I was thinking if there was a way to search either within a folder or within a directory. Not sure if that is easy or hard to implement.

Searching ain't that easy because of the system I'm using for displaying the content. It'd take a bit to explain why, though. For short I don't want to sacrifice much of the overall performance, still need to figure out a fast way of doing this. Also, I'm experimenting with various methods of filtering content, for example: http://resonic.at/labs/25

On your part when you are posting these pre-releases in the future, it might be nice to know if there is a feature or option you are specifically worried about or would like an opinion on so we can target that and come back with specific feedback.

Absolutely!

[Tom]

If for auto-resizing, make so it compacts the column to the smallest width depending of amount of length of the longest word/content.

Well yeah, that'd require me to scan all content, which is also the main problem with text search right now. I need something hybrid for now.

Not sure what would be best, maybe have a weight on what columns are more important and hide others depending how wide/narrow the window is?

Mmh, was thinking about something pretty neat: having different sets of columns for maximized/restored states, e.g. simple set of columns when Resonic is windowed, extended set of columns when Resonic is maximized.

Rearranging columns would be good.

Indeed. Will go with a dialog for this one for now.

Also, found another small audio player. Hokrain.
It loads folders and scans waveform really fast.
The theming and behaviour of the window is also a bit out of the regular.
It feels really smooth as well.

Yeah, I've tested Hokrain quite a bit a while ago. It's definitely one of the better attempts, although the interface feels heaps weird, wave cannot be resized, and it's pretty buggy.

Edit: Do they still develop Hokrain? Seems like it's stopped?

[mrfox]

Actually both on low-end and high-end. By the way on my work computer (low-end one) I usually listen to music shared over network (smb).

On my home PC the issue seems to be gone (or got really rare) after setting the bit rate to 16 bit in windows audio settings. I'll try the same tomorrow at work and report back my findings.

Alright, thanks!

Seems like it was a problem with bitrates and some bad luck really. I haven't experienced the issue today.

[Tom]

Seems like it was a problem with bitrates and some bad luck really. I haven't experienced the issue today.

Okay, good to know.

[Andreasvb]

Edit: Do they still develop Hokrain? Seems like it's stopped?

Seems it stopped in 2011, found it recently though, via http://www.portablefreeware.com/

It got a search-function, just start typing and it will display a little text-window. It will only find the first letters, but can be overridden by using * as first char.
Maybe something like that could be considered?

[caseya21]

As much as I love little minimal-ish lightweight type audio players, there are alot of crap ones out there. I downloaded hokrain just to check it out for fun, it really does remind of old winamp days when I was in high school 13 years ago. It certainly is not terrible, but I still think billy is the best mini lightweight audio player out there. Sadly it has not been updated for many years.

[BTGbullseye]

So far I can find no major issues with it in my typical use scenario, (much appreciate the columns and repaired analyzer visualizations) and have noticed three of the previously mentioned bugs. (one of which you said was intentional and was going to be optional, another you said was also intentional for the visualization) The one that I noticed that wasn't an intentional change was the arrow key looping issue posted by Andreasvb.

I would like to request that you change the spectrum analyzers to have a 10Hz - 18kHz range... (most songs I know of have lots of high-end detail that would look good with those ranges in both visualizations)

Oh, almost posted before I noticed another bug with the visualizations... The range it displays is variable depending on how wide the visualization is. At the default window width I get 11.7Hz - 47700.1Hz in logarithmic, in the narrowest window I can get it to 11.7Hz - 47433.0Hz, and maximized gives 11.7Hz - 47740.8Hz. Linear analyzer gives 0.0Hz - 16034.8Hz at normal window, narrowest gives 0.0Hz - 16024.0Hz, and gets 0.0Hz - 16036.4Hz maximized. (maximized on a 1600x900 monitor in default Win7 x64) They also change with different file types and bitrates/bit-depths.

[EDIT] Another bug I just found... After resizing the visualization beyond about half the window height it won't shade the progress for the song regardless of the setting for it in the menu or after restarting the program. (also happening in Alpha 755)

[EDIT2] Another... If you move the mouse pointer rapidly in the visualization area, the visualization appears to increase it's update rate. (now I sit there all the time just moving my mouse cursor in there to see the faster update rate, I like it)(also happening in Alpha 755)

[caseya21]

It doesn't look like the columns are moveable. That would be nice.

[DeepY]

Hi, Resonic!

I would like:

1. pic of album track (when clicked on open the folder with the track).
2. changing the font size.
3. change the position of the File List parameters (File Name, Size, etc. ).
4. change the position of track in Playlist by mouse.
5. I can`t add a track/folder to Playlist (drag and drop).
6. play tracks by double clicking.
7. button - show left panel.
8. change color schemes. I prefere dark background.
9. button del on keyboard - track will be removed from the Playlist.
10. right-click on the track - paragraph menu properties.

[caseya21]

Is there a way to enable continuous playback within a folder in this release ? I don't know if I am just missing it or something.

[Tom]

Is there a way to enable continuous playback within a folder in this release ? I don't know if I am just missing it or something.

you mean menu | playback | sequential?

[Tom]

Hi, Resonic!
I would like:

1. pic of album track (when clicked on open the folder with the track).
...
10. right-click on the track - paragraph menu properties.

i think you missed the point of pre-release testing.

this is not the place for suggestions, please put them in the public forum:
http://forums.resonic.at/viewforum.php?f=4

[Tom]

The one that I noticed that wasn't an intentional change was the arrow key looping issue posted by Andreasvb.

true, not really intended, but then again intended it's kind of a reminder to myself to work out a solution for wrapping modes or something.

to be honest right now most of the time is going into design. i'm trying out tons of methods of accomplishing something and i'm really unhappy with most of them

I would like to request that you change the spectrum analyzers to have a 10Hz - 18kHz range... (most songs I know of have lots of high-end detail that would look good with those ranges in both visualizations)

as i said, this is reserved for pro version.

remember, for most regular users - who have no idea what an analyzer is, or how to use it - this is only eye candy, something that moves and is kinda neat to look at. it's really more neat to look at when it's always in full use, horizontally.

Oh, almost posted before I noticed another bug with the visualizations... The range it displays is variable depending on how wide the visualization is. At the default window width I get 11.7Hz - 47700.1Hz in logarithmic, in the narrowest window I can get it to 11.7Hz - 47433.0Hz, and maximized gives 11.7Hz - 47740.8Hz.

yeah, this happens because of rounding. values won't always be the same, but this doesn't really affect accuracy much. there is only so much accuracy i can provide.

Another bug I just found... After resizing the visualization beyond about half the window height it won't shade the progress for the song regardless of the setting for it in the menu or after restarting the program. (also happening in Alpha 755)

from changelog:

Code: Select all

+ New option to disable the translucent color overlays shading the played
   area of the waveform in 'Menu | Visualization'.
  Enabling this option is mainly a design choice, but it can also help reduce
   processor usage quite a bit, depending on the waveform size.
  If you're in for performance over visuals make sure you enable this.
  Note that in any case the overlay is only drawn up to a certain waveform height,
   and is not drawn for very short sound files.

this is to take the strain off the cpu.

Another... If you move the mouse pointer rapidly in the visualization area, the visualization appears to increase it's update rate. (now I sit there all the time just moving my mouse cursor in there to see the faster update rate, I like it)(also happening in Alpha 755)

i know, but i can't change that right now.

i always have to keep in mind the trade-off between update performance and cpu usage. i might add various speed settings later, but for now it's just no use taking up 30% cpu just for faster updates.

[caseya21]

Is there a way to enable continuous playback within a folder in this release ? I don't know if I am just missing it or something.

you mean menu | playback | sequential?

I get that, I was meaning if you have say 15 tracks in a folder and they play through entirely once the last song finishes playing the music ends. Instead of starting over and playing the first track again. I thought that was happening, maybe I read wrong.

[Tom]

I get that, I was meaning if you have say 15 tracks in a folder and they play through entirely once the last song finishes playing the music ends. Instead of starting over and playing the first track again. I thought that was happening, maybe I read wrong.

thought i broke something with sequential playback, hence my question

you're talking about repeat modes, at least i call them like that internally. haven't worked on them yet as there are no real playlists yet. the high performance comes with a price: everything's more complicated to implement than usual, even the simplest things like folder repeat.

by the way, i'll upload another pre within the next hour, focusing on auto-resizing columns, which is a priority for the next release.

[BTGbullseye]

The one that I noticed that wasn't an intentional change was the arrow key looping issue posted by Andreasvb.

true, not really intended, but then again intended it's kind of a reminder to myself to work out a solution for wrapping modes or something.

to be honest right now most of the time is going into design. i'm trying out tons of methods of accomplishing something and i'm really unhappy with most of them

I understand.

I would like to request that you change the spectrum analyzers to have a 10Hz - 18kHz range... (most songs I know of have lots of high-end detail that would look good with those ranges in both visualizations)

as i said, this is reserved for pro version.

remember, for most regular users - who have no idea what an analyzer is, or how to use it - this is only eye candy, something that moves and is kinda neat to look at. it's really more neat to look at when it's always in full use, horizontally.

Ok, was just kinda hoping... (I'm a broke audiophile that likes wibbly-wobbly things)

Oh, almost posted before I noticed another bug with the visualizations... The range it displays is variable depending on how wide the visualization is. At the default window width I get 11.7Hz - 47700.1Hz in logarithmic, in the narrowest window I can get it to 11.7Hz - 47433.0Hz, and maximized gives 11.7Hz - 47740.8Hz.

yeah, this happens because of rounding. values won't always be the same, but this doesn't really affect accuracy much. there is only so much accuracy i can provide.

Ok. I just wanted to add that it also drops the range on the logarithmic to 10.8Hz - 21940.8Hz when I have the visualization pulled to be taller. Does it just scale the visualization based on the visual area, (height/width are linked) or does it adjust the visualization dynamically? (height/width adjust independently)

Another bug I just found... After resizing the visualization beyond about half the window height it won't shade the progress for the song regardless of the setting for it in the menu or after restarting the program. (also happening in Alpha 755)

from changelog:

Code: Select all

+ New option to disable the translucent color overlays shading the played
   area of the waveform in 'Menu | Visualization'.
  Enabling this option is mainly a design choice, but it can also help reduce
   processor usage quite a bit, depending on the waveform size.
  If you're in for performance over visuals make sure you enable this.
  Note that in any case the overlay is only drawn up to a certain waveform height,
   and is not drawn for very short sound files.

this is to take the strain off the cpu.

Ah, I guess I just didn't understand what you meant by 'overlay' when I read that... Nevermind then. (and thanks for the clarification)

Another... If you move the mouse pointer rapidly in the visualization area, the visualization appears to increase it's update rate. (now I sit there all the time just moving my mouse cursor in there to see the faster update rate, I like it)(also happening in Alpha 755)

i know, but i can't change that right now.

i always have to keep in mind the trade-off between update performance and cpu usage. i might add various speed settings later, but for now it's just no use taking up 30% cpu just for faster updates.

Sounds good.

[Tom]

Ok. I just wanted to add that it also drops the range on the logarithmic to 10.8Hz - 21940.8Hz when I have the visualization pulled to be taller. Does it just scale the visualization based on the visual area, (height/width are linked) or does it adjust the visualization dynamically? (height/width adjust independently)

the range on the log analyzer should always be half the sample rate, as it currently displays all available content, and should not be influenced by the window size.

it adjusts the visualization dynamically, i.e. h/w independently.

[Tom]

new pre-release posted

[BTGbullseye]

Ok. I just wanted to add that it also drops the range on the logarithmic to 10.8Hz - 21940.8Hz when I have the visualization pulled to be taller. Does it just scale the visualization based on the visual area, (height/width are linked) or does it adjust the visualization dynamically? (height/width adjust independently)

the range on the log analyzer should always be half the sample rate, as it currently displays all available content, and should not be influenced by the window size.

it adjusts the visualization dynamically, i.e. h/w independently.

Ah, OK.