Suggestions after first few days with Resonic Pro

Comments, ideas, suggestions, criticism. Your thoughts.
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Zetto
My fingers hurt
Posts: 3
Joined: July 24th, 2016, 02:42
Your primary DAWs: Studio One, Cubase, Live

Suggestions after first few days with Resonic Pro

Hey,

First, there are many things I like about Resonic, but I specifically want to mention its speed, how fast I can audition my files. The app starts fast, files play instantly when cycling through them and the app is very responsive and snappy. Regardless of what changes come in the future, this should really not have to suffer. I can suspect the database functionality in the future can slow down initial app loading time a bit, that's perfectly OK. Database functionality is essential for a good sample / fx manager, and I'll gladly trade in some app startup speed for a good and thorough database, but the playing of files and overall responsiveness should stay as fast as now.

Other than that here are some suggestions for features that I'd love to see implemented, and which I think I haven't seen mentioned in the roadmap:
  • rex/rx2 file support
  • add "open in external application" option in right-click menu, e.g. a favorite audio editor. Nice would also be a keyboard shortcut.
  • The crossfeed setting should stay activated when closing and re-opening Resonic
  • make the setting of loop points easier. Nice would be through using keyboard modifiers; e.g. CTRL + Left-Click to set start point, ALT + Left-Click to set end point (this is what many DAWs use)
  • To copy a loop section to a new file or into other applications you currently employ that small square at the bottom right of the loop. While I love the functionality, the square is a bit small for my taste; I'd like it to be bigger. Or what would maybe also be nice is a context aware cursor like in Studio One: When you click & drag in the lower half (or lower third) of the waveform display it triggers loop section copy like the square does, when clicking on the upper half (or upper two thirds) it's normal locator positioning behavior. This context aware cursor would allow very fast copying of loop sections, because the triggering area would be fairly large. A changing mouse cursor would indicate what would be triggered by clicking, copying the loop or locator positioning. Ideally this would be customizable as an ON/OFF setting, to switch between smaller square and context aware cursor.
  • Allow color customization of waveform display. For example, I find the center line to be almost invisible and such like it to be a bit brighter.
  • Currently, when moving the mouse cursor inside the waveform display, an OSD shows the current position in time. What would also be nice is to see the dB value(s) at that position as well. Ideally this would be customizable as an ON/OFF setting.
  • Currently when pausing a track you employ short delay, probably for fade out to avoid clicks. Please add an option to turn the delay off, or make the delay amount user definable via e.g. a slider.
  • I saw no option to disable automatic playing on file selection. There are times when I want to just select a file without playing it, a simple example would be to move a file into my DAW. Here it can be quite annoying to always have the file playing back. Please add an option to disable auto-playing on file selection.

Tom
Liqube Audio
Liqube Audio
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Re: Suggestions after first few days with Resonic Pro

First off, hey there and thanks for the excellent feedback.
The app starts fast, files play instantly when cycling through them and the app is very responsive and snappy. Regardless of what changes come in the future, this should really not have to suffer. I can suspect the database functionality in the future can slow down initial app loading time a bit, that's perfectly OK.
Responsiveness is really one of the main design goals, which is sometimes incredibly hard to achieve, but it's worth it. Whatever features we'll add, we'll make sure that performance is never compromised and features that might compromise performance more than just a little bit can always be deactivated by the user.

When it comes to database functionality, we'll try to keep the change in startup speed to a minimum. Just to mention that: we're constantly optimizing startup speed. With each release there is usually also some kind of little tweak that improves it in a way.
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Tom
Liqube Audio
Liqube Audio
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Re: Suggestions after first few days with Resonic Pro

[*]rex/rx2 file support[/*]
It's not clear yet how to optimize this in the best possible way: The guys at Propellerhead did not have streaming in mind when it comes to the REX format, which means the file needs to be fully loaded, decrypted, and processed (stretching) into memory before it can be played. The bigger the file, the higher the delay before playback starts.
The meta data part (what is shown in the file list) we have fully covered already.
[*]add "open in external application" option in right-click menu, e.g. a favorite audio editor. Nice would also be a keyboard shortcut.[/*]
Yes, definitely. Actually, there will be user-customizable external tools, but we'll start with an editor button (which already exists in dev versions). Right-click menu, added to todo. And shortcut... thinking of CTRL-E or similar.
snap160724221459.png
snap160724221459.png (1.69 KiB) Viewed 2417 times
[*]The crossfeed setting should stay activated when closing and re-opening Resonic[/*]
Added to todo, as a right-click option.
[*]make the setting of loop points easier. Nice would be through using keyboard modifiers; e.g. CTRL + Left-Click to set start point, ALT + Left-Click to set end point (this is what many DAWs use)[/*]
[*]To copy a loop section to a new file or into other applications you currently employ that small square ...
We need to keep in mind that some of the planned features require keyboard modifier as well, so I can't just use them up straight away. An old sketch of mine exists that outlines different ideas for context sensitive functionality over the waveform (like muting channels and similar). This will also need some more thinking.
[*]Allow color customization of waveform display. For example, I find the center line to be almost invisible and such like it to be a bit brighter.[/*]
Added to todo, but on low priority. There is constant fine-tuning going on on both the dark and the light themes, so I'll see if I can make it more visible. For testing I use both an IPS and a TN panel, but then again every TN is different. So when it comes to slight differences in color they might not be visible on certain displays while they'll be fine on others. Then if colors are exaggerated they might look terrible on better ones. Hence the constant fine-tuning.
[*]Currently, when moving the mouse cursor inside the waveform display, an OSD shows the current position in time. What would also be nice is to see the dB value(s) at that position as well. Ideally this would be customizable as an ON/OFF setting.[/*]
Good idea that.
[*]Currently when pausing a track you employ short delay, probably for fade out to avoid clicks. Please add an option to turn the delay off, or make the delay amount user definable via e.g. a slider.[/*]
Please explain more in depth. How do you pause (SPACE bar, button, what kind of delay). There is a delay on the SPACE bar because it has two functions, for which I've just added an option todo ;)
[*]I saw no option to disable automatic playing on file selection. There are times when I want to just select a file without playing it, a simple example would be to move a file into my DAW. Here it can be quite annoying to always have the file playing back. Please add an option to disable auto-playing on file selection.[/*]
Resonic was built with a single-click interface. But I understand having different "launch modes" is a necessity to cover a wide range of uses for the application, from music listening to party playback (Player only), to music production, to broadcast production, to very reliable and stable use in a theatre as a launcher, etc.
Any of these additional launch modes or behaviors require countless changes in logic all across the application. But rest assured that this is definitely on the todo list.

If you would like to volunteer testing any of these implementations in the near future get in touch with me on Skype (liqube).
Join our Slack community for chat, testing, and new builds; or our Resonic Users FB group.

A user interface is like a joke: if you have to explain it, it's not that good.

Zetto
My fingers hurt
Posts: 3
Joined: July 24th, 2016, 02:42
Your primary DAWs: Studio One, Cubase, Live

Re: Suggestions after first few days with Resonic Pro

Tom wrote: Please explain more in depth. How do you pause (SPACE bar, button, what kind of delay). There is a delay on the SPACE bar because it has two functions, for which I've just added an option todo ;)
Ah, my bad; indeed, when the play/pause button is used there's no delay, and the delay for Space bar is there because of the additional Space bar hold function, which triggers dim.

But yeah, for the Space bar it definitely should be removable as well; using the Space bar to pause/start is just the way most people are used to I think, and the delay can feel a bit awkward and actually a bit against the snappyness of the rest of the program. I guess the easiest solution would be to assign another shortcut to the dim functionality, or make the hold function selectable (ON/OFF). Maybe a different hotkey would be better because through that the feature would still be available.

And I've just thought about disabling autoplayback again: I think despite a setting that disables it app-wide, it should also be just temporarily applyable, e.g. through the ALT modifier. That way, when you just want to copy a file elsewhere without playing it back you just hold ALT, drag the file to where you want, and done. The normal behavior is not compromised, quick and easy. Just a setting in a menu could actually become cumbersome when you just want to change the behavior temporarily like described. I see that ALT is currently assigned to the selection rectangle, but maybe that can be reassigned to CTRL+SHIFT, which would also make sense as both CTRL and SHIFT act as selection specific modifiers already.

Tom
Liqube Audio
Liqube Audio
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Re: Suggestions after first few days with Resonic Pro

But yeah, for the Space bar it definitely should be removable as well; using the Space bar to pause/start is just the way most people are used to I think, and the delay can feel a bit awkward and actually a bit against the snappyness of the rest of the program. I guess the easiest solution would be to assign another shortcut to the dim functionality, or make the hold function selectable (ON/OFF). Maybe a different hotkey would be better because through that the feature would still be available.
I'll first add an option (I meant to add that a long time ago) and then think about the shorcut. Can't think of a good one at the moment, one that doesn't block essential features and works on every keyboard.
And I've just thought about disabling autoplayback again: I think despite a setting that disables it app-wide, it should also be just temporarily applyable, e.g. through the ALT modifier. That way, when you just want to copy a file elsewhere without playing it back you just hold ALT, drag the file to where you want, and done. The normal behavior is not compromised, quick and easy. Just a setting in a menu could actually become cumbersome when you just want to change the behavior temporarily like described. I see that ALT is currently assigned to the selection rectangle, but maybe that can be reassigned to CTRL+SHIFT, which would also make sense as both CTRL and SHIFT act as selection specific modifiers already.
Have a look here: https://resonic.at/docs/file-list#behavior
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A user interface is like a joke: if you have to explain it, it's not that good.

Zetto
My fingers hurt
Posts: 3
Joined: July 24th, 2016, 02:42
Your primary DAWs: Studio One, Cubase, Live

Re: Suggestions after first few days with Resonic Pro

sweet! sorry for not looking there first.

what's a bit unfortunate with CTRL being the shortcut to suppress autoplayback is that when you have a track selected but want to quickly copy another track without playing, both tracks will be copied because CTRL also of course functions as a selection-add, unless you press ESC first to clear the selection.

looper
I'll think of more soon
Posts: 2
Joined: November 11th, 2016, 02:46
First Name: Stef
Your primary DAWs: Live, Logic

Re: Suggestions after first few days with Resonic Pro

Tom wrote:
[*]rex/rx2 file support[/*]
It's not clear yet how to optimize this in the best possible way: The guys at Propellerhead did not have streaming in mind when it comes to the REX format, which means the file needs to be fully loaded, decrypted, and processed (stretching) into memory before it can be played. The bigger the file, the higher the delay before playback starts.
The meta data part (what is shown in the file list) we have fully covered already.
Given that most REX/RX2 files are rather short and today's CPUs are fast enough, I don't think this is a problem.
I've been working with RX2 in Ableton and Logic for years, and the decompression delay is there, but I happily accept it because it's more space-saving than Apple Loops or Acid Wave.

Tom
Liqube Audio
Liqube Audio
Posts: 1009
Joined: December 12th, 2012, 19:12
First Name: Tom
Artist Handle: Liqube
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Re: Suggestions after first few days with Resonic Pro

looper wrote:
Tom wrote:
[*]rex/rx2 file support[/*]
It's not clear yet how to optimize this in the best possible way: The guys at Propellerhead did not have streaming in mind when it comes to the REX format, which means the file needs to be fully loaded, decrypted, and processed (stretching) into memory before it can be played. The bigger the file, the higher the delay before playback starts.
The meta data part (what is shown in the file list) we have fully covered already.
Given that most REX/RX2 files are rather short and today's CPUs are fast enough, I don't think this is a problem.
I've been working with RX2 in Ableton and Logic for years, and the decompression delay is there, but I happily accept it because it's more space-saving than Apple Loops or Acid Wave.
Personally I'd never replace AIFF/WAVE with RX2 for many reasons, one being RX2 being a proprietary one-way format that loses all of its meta data. Once you realized how much great information is in a well-prepared AIFF file (even though I prefer WAVE) that can be used in a multitude of ways you never look back. Disk space is cheap these days as well.

That much being said I'm thinking about strong meta data cross-conversion support for RX2/WAVE/AIFF.

But yeah, looking into that more.
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looper
I'll think of more soon
Posts: 2
Joined: November 11th, 2016, 02:46
First Name: Stef
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Re: Suggestions after first few days with Resonic Pro

I agree - although Apple Loop and Acid Wave extensions are just as proprietary, these files are at least readable without proprietary code.
Nothing would have kept any developer 15 years ago from adding slice and loop-related tags to, say, FLAC files and leave the stretch algorithm up to the application (which can be a good thing, see Stylus RMX for example).
But unfortunately nobody did!
And that's the problem - for lack of a better alternative to compressed loop files, REX and later RX2 have become one of the industry standard formats that thousands of sample library products have been offered.

So to anybody who has tens of thousands of REX/RX2 files (and for some libs you had to choose between formats!) on their storage, those will always look for REX/RX2 support in an editor.
Whether or not a potential Resonic user will want to install the REX shared library for their platform is another thing, but having the option to browse through all audio files, including REX/RX2, is one of the first things that I naturally look for in the supported formats list.

Thank you for thinking about it :)

Tom
Liqube Audio
Liqube Audio
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Re: Suggestions after first few days with Resonic Pro

Nobody did, indeed.

See, the meta core we're working on for Resonic is very powerful already and only reveals a tiny fraction of its features so far (visible as a few columns in Player+Pro, or similar). I'm thinking about opening up all of the meta information in an open but strictly defined specification so that everybody can read and reuse it easily. This includes everything that is cue related (which is a big topic for the Pro version): cues, markers, slices, comments, loops, in/out points, and much more. There is absolutely no reason why ridiculously basic and important information like this needs to be proprietary, or even be complicated.

As for RX2 files: there is an insane amount of libraries available, indeed, and many of them come at least with additional RX2 conversions. So this is something I'm taking seriously.

Besides, Resonic Pro reads Apple Loop and ACID WAVE transients and slices and displays them as snap points. Same goes for markers - and it's only beginning now. This can be seen here, for example (the light vertical lines):
Image
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