Alpha 0.6b RC [Release Candidate]

[Tom]

Here's the Release Candidate of Resonic Beta 0.6.

This is the setup version of Resonic Player with full installer.
Future versions of the same Player/Pro/Beta/Release flavor upgrade themselves, i.e. you do not have to uninstall old versions first.

The objective is to test it thoroughly, from the setup to the actual app, please report everything that seems off, or broken.

If the app crashes or freezes please send me the file "ProfilerRelease.log", which resides in the path where you installed the application. For those who are not familiar with the term "release candidate", it basically means it's one of the last (or in this case the last) test build before the actual public release.

What's included:
- Explorer integration and icons (see "Menu | Manage file associations")
- Setup does not grab file associations
- New "copy version info" link in about box, if you need to share your version information

What's missing:
- Sound output options have been removed (next Beta)
- Events view (mod music) has been removed (next Beta, or the one after)
- whatsnew.txt not up to date (list of most recent changes is attached to this post)

The public release is (now finally) scheduled for this weekend!

Quick responses are especially appreciated on this RC build so any issues can be fixed right away.
If you're on Skype feel free to get in touch: liqube

Thanks for testing

[Jan]

Meinen Glückwunsch <3

[mrfox]

Everything is fast and smooth. A strange issue happened though: after installing it I could not scroll with the mouse (in the browser and file list). After restarting Resonic mouse scrolling started working again.

[StevieBoy]

just read this post

I shall give this a good testing over the next few hours especially

but also quite a bit I the run up to the weekend

thanks & will report back anything asap

[StevieBoy]

install went smoothly, no hitches, hiccups, everything runs smart & looks tidy

manage file associations window pops under which wasn't expected

There seems to be no delay between playback automatically progressing through the list now, which kinda makes a large part of what I've been doing (auditioning quite a few short sounds & organising them) quite useless, moves far too fast to be of any use in that context - which was going to be what I was reccomending this to people as a massive strength as it has been so great with that previously. I shall go back to using the prev beta version for any work on my sample library I'm doing to be frank. I guess seemless playing is what an music player does though & I'm expecting a bit much

kinda stopped me in my tracks there as I want to get some bits done, ah well.

[Tom]

A fixed delay should be enabled for the Player.
If it isn't, it's an issue I'm gonna fix. That's what the RC is for.

The window popping under seems to be Windows' way of telling me to gtfo. Not sure what to do about that.

[StevieBoy]

A fixed delay should be enabled for the Player.
If it isn't, it's an issue I'm gonna fix. That's what the RC is for.

Ah, I see, don't take my postings in the wrong way, I'm just reporting from my seat & my point of view.

would be a shame if you could not toggle it between 0ms & a number that gives you time to do what you need if it is to be used for auditioning etc...

Ok, it seems very very quick to skip not even a ms inbetween, I'd hazard there is no delay on this one.

The window popping under seems to be Windows' way of telling me to gtfo. Not sure what to do about that.

fair

also I didn't ask it to, or save anything but installing resonic seemed to change all my wav icons when I had them set to something custom

talking of icons, I wasn't keen on the icon for the installer.

[StevieBoy]

just tested the uninstall (don't worry I'm going to re-install again) & it went fine, left me with a load of blank icons though, possibly because I'd customised them before, I have a reg entry for quickness to restore the defaults or revert to my custom icon, but when trying this I get a message some keys are open by the system or other processes. odd. Manually reverting them to the defaults doesn't seem to work either for some reason.

reinstalled & it has the resonic icons there again, it has 9 file types as the defualt which you can't seem to change - it really shouldn't do that imo

[StevieBoy]

ok ok right, the only way you can get manage file associations is to run resonic as an administrator. Don't think that wshould work like that but I see it uses the windows set default progs.

I'm sure it's locking them afterwards too, I'll test a bit more

edit, no actually 10 file types are still locked & associated as default, as default.

[Tom]

just tested the uninstall (don't worry I'm going to re-install again) & it went fine, left me with a load of blank icons though, possibly because I'd customised them before, I have a reg entry for quickness to restore the defaults or revert to my custom icon, but when trying this I get a message some keys are open by the system or other processes. odd. Manually reverting them to the defaults doesn't seem to work either for some reason.

reinstalled & it has the resonic icons there again, it has 9 file types as the defualt which you can't seem to change - it really shouldn't do that imo

It honestly should not do that. And especially for that reason I'm using Windows Installer and the associations dialog that is built into Windows. Will have to investigate more.

However, besides all that, I decided to go with an open icon set (icons folder with individual .ico files in install dir), which can also be customized by exchanging the icon files.

[StevieBoy]

seems like all these are locked as default file types even though they open by clicking them with windows media player

so it does't seem to do anything but change the icons

[StevieBoy]

just tested the uninstall (don't worry I'm going to re-install again) & it went fine, left me with a load of blank icons though, possibly because I'd customised them before, I have a reg entry for quickness to restore the defaults or revert to my custom icon, but when trying this I get a message some keys are open by the system or other processes. odd. Manually reverting them to the defaults doesn't seem to work either for some reason.

reinstalled & it has the resonic icons there again, it has 9 file types as the defualt which you can't seem to change - it really shouldn't do that imo

It honestly should not do that. And especially for that reason I'm using Windows Installer and the associations dialog that is built into Windows. Will have to investigate more.

However, besides all that, I decided to go with an open icon set (icons folder with individual .ico files in install dir), which can also be customized by exchanging the icon files.

strange, trying on another machine that hasn't had anything changed with regards to defaults & icons on win 8 though

not so worried about the custom thing just returning system to the state it was before installation & also it automatically taking function away from other programs which may have been defaults otherwise without asking.

edit : orrrrrrrr could I have save the file associations when the window popped under by mistake instead of cancelling, either way those options are now locked

it didn't automatically do anything on this other machine, hmmm - win 8

the other machine win 7 seems to have locked up on the defaults window not allowing me to unassociate


uninstalled on win 8 machine, file type & association was returned as normal

must be something this side on this (win 7) machine then, odd & annoying

edit :2 I just restored to a point before I installed

[alexsaloid]

Everything runing smooth here, awesome pice of software, thank you!

[Jan]

However, besides all that, I decided to go with an open icon set (icons folder with individual .ico files in install dir), which can also be customized by exchanging the icon files.

You now I love your Icons, but man I love to have the freedom to change.

[Tom]

not so worried about the custom thing just returning system to the state it was before installation & also it automatically taking function away from other programs which may have been defaults otherwise without asking.

That's not something you can easily do, because you cannot know what happened between install and uninstall, which other programs might have changed associations. Windows Installer should take care of that, but obviously doesn't.

it didn't automatically do anything on this other machine, hmmm - win 8.
uninstalled on win 8 machine, file type & association was returned as normal

That's good to know, I heard they changed this whole file associations system quite a bit.

the other machine win 7 seems to have locked up on the defaults window not allowing me to unassociate

Still looking into this...!

[Tom]

Just a heads-up: In case the app randomly freezes on your system (within the first 30 seconds after starting it), this issue has been taken care of now.

[StevieBoy]

Fair enough, thank you by the way, I'm not here just to pick holes in things, you have done some marvellous work

That's not something you can easily do, because you cannot know what happened between install and uninstall, which other programs might have changed associations. Windows Installer should take care of that, but obviously doesn't.

I thought so as I was writing it, as a lot more goes on in between installs than the program could ever know! I think I badly worded what I was thinking at the time.

I still think you should be asked if you want to associate certain files before a program does it automatically though, to intergrate rather than take over existing preferences.

That's good to know, I heard they changed this whole file associations system quite a bit.

Yep behind the crack smoking exterior of win 8 it's pretty good & does a lot of things quite well & faster.

It didn't automatically associate .wav files at first either

what's funny is that wav files were not assoc in the defualts on my win 7 machine but a filetype ".WAVE" were shown in the resonic set defaults only with a checkbox selected (not on any other tab for audio programs, I've not actually seen that filetype as an extension before)
the icon for .wav files was however changed

It seems like once you have selected a filetype as a default (by choice) & saved it you cannot remove it afterwards it seems & locks it up until you chose another program to open those files with, either through the program, or starting the default programs list from windows itself

late edit : another funny thing, reinstalling onto the win 8 machine is that the wav file was automatically defaulted to resonic when it reinstalled, & opened with the file & played it too! & I noted the behaviour with regards to default programs is the same as on the win 7 machine, the file associations are indeed locked, not allowing me to deselect them as defaults which messes up where I like my files to be opened in from double clicking, I don't want files to be associated with resonic without me asking, that shouldn't be a defualt behaviour - just the ability to read them & If I want them associated I would chose to do so. not have to mess around after associating them back to their respective original programs.

that;s what I meant before.

Still looking into this...!

great, just posting what I'm finding, some is bound to be odd configurations & user error, so hoping not keeping you too busy I'd like to see if anyone else has anything like this, though we all use these things in different ways.

[BTGbullseye]

The install automatically associates the default file types on install, and you can't tell it not to. You really should change this.

[Tom]

This seems to be an issue in Windows Installer, and on Vista/7 only. I'm working on it.

The idea was to NOT associate anything, then give the user the chance to use Windows' built-in associations dialog.

[Tom]

On the Brackets forum I found this:

I assumed the same since all I do is add Resonic as candidate. But I disagree, it would indeed be stealing, something I was trying to avoid from the start. It seems to be the same for all apps, some users have the problem, some don't.

Working on it. For now, I have removed the download.

[Tom]

Ok found out that this is a general problem with these installers. Most software just goes ahead and grabs file extensions, is why Microsoft decided to handle this bad behavior differently in Windows 8+.

However, in Windows Vista/7 it's still a serious problem. Not sure what's best yet, but I'd prefer to rewrite it all (dirty, dirty work) so in the end I'd do it all manually instead of relying on Windows Installer.

For short, the problem is simply that Windows Installer is changing the user's default file associations, which is absolutely unnecessary. I really cannot understand what fucking idiot of a developer thought that would be great to have in an installer do that by default, without a way to set an option, to show a message, to ask the user, to let the setup developer do anything about it. I really don't get it. And then everyone's wondering why file associations on Windows are messed up beyond repair.

It's a never-ending story...

[BTGbullseye]

I'm willing to sacrifice my file associations for testing your solutions to this problem.

[StevieBoy]

Ok found out that this is a general problem with these installers. Most software just goes ahead and grabs file extensions, is why Microsoft decided to handle this bad behavior differently in Windows 8+.

However, in Windows Vista/7 it's still a serious problem. Not sure what's best yet, but I'd prefer to rewrite it all (dirty, dirty work) so in the end I'd do it all manually instead of relying on Windows Installer.

For short, the problem is simply that Windows Installer is changing the user's default file associations, which is absolutely unnecessary. I really cannot understand what fucking idiot of a developer thought that would be great to have in an installer do that by default, without a way to set an option, to show a message, to ask the user, to let the setup developer do anything about it. I really don't get it. And then everyone's wondering why file associations on Windows are messed up beyond repair.

It's a never-ending story...

lol amazing, makes you wonder doesn't it.

tbh as an end user I'd rather use it portable for the time being if the new installer does that crap.

I've seen installers with these type of options before maybe they had to add that in somehow, seem to remember Winamp doing it but maybe Justin wrote his own installer with that? have no idea not my realm.

I'm not equipped to help with that, although I can see its a headache, thanks again for your hard work

the older installer on the alpha didn't do that did it? or has so much changed that is not an option

as a tester I'm happy to try a few things anyway & help, don't ever take any of my posts as directed at you Tom, I understand that this is supplied "as is", I can always revert back my things anyway, just I reckon that would piss a whole lot of people off as a end user

[StevieBoy]

Just a heads-up: In case the app randomly freezes on your system (within the first 30 seconds after starting it), this issue has been taken care of now.

missed this, this hadn't happened at all this end but good to know.

[Andreasvb]

I like my portable.

[JamesEW]

Sorry for the frustrations here tom. Maybe a bad time to ask this here but what are the advantages of using an installer over a portable version beyond automatic updates?

I tend to prefer using portable versions of software and find it very simple to download and extract files, then use windows file open properties to set file associations with Resonic.

Just curious. Might be a lot of valid reasons i hadn't considered.

[StevieBoy]

^ Not that you have to be a supergeek or anything but I suppose it assumes people are good with that stuff too, to an avg user id reckon installers are kinda expected. one case in point recently I reccomended a search tool locate32 & it's an uncompress where you like affair portable install, matey sends me an email back, "but how tf do I install it" install being the operative word lol. I'd bet a lot of people even have trouble with installers

[JamesEW]

I see your point but then in keeping with Resonics spirits, its all about choice baby

I may have found some add recursively bug but as this is a short term fix to playlists, not sure wether to report it here.

Is this supposed to only work with one folder? i.e you select root folder and add recursively? So this is not for selecting a sub folder - add recursively, then select another sub folder and add recursively?

Sorry to hijack this but cant yet test the RC setup installer.

[StevieBoy]

oh yeah, I'd offer both if I were in that game, not sure if that is extra aggro but I've seen a few people do it.

add recursively seems to be fine on I didn't know what it even did at first, the naming is a bit obscure imo but what I got from it is you can chose any folder & it will show what files are inside the sub folders in the file list without having to move between the folders, that's how it worked for me. I'm not near a computer to test it again but will do later today.

just had a thought but maybe this isn't the place, split file list windows in the pro version would smash every other program out of the water, as it stands, I'd been half screening resonic & copying things to an explorer window as it was faster, but I guess that's what multiple instances is about, so might try that - there's enough on the plate as it is Id bet!

[Martin]

Don't worry, the portable version isn't going away.

Is this supposed to only work with one folder? i.e you select root folder and add recursively?

Exactly. The "add" part is a bit misleading.

[Tom]

lol amazing, makes you wonder doesn't it.

All the time.

tbh as an end user I'd rather use it portable for the time being if the new installer does that crap.

No longer, it doesn't. I've found a solution, which is none, it's more like a "do it all manually" workaround. But to be honest, I prefer that. Puts me in full control over what is happening.

The new setup will in no case grab any of the user's file extensions ever again. It will merely register its own file types and give the user the choice to do with them whatever he wants. That also means that uninstall won't be affecting any of the user's associations.

I've seen installers with these type of options before maybe they had to add that in somehow, seem to remember Winamp doing it but maybe Justin wrote his own installer with that? have no idea not my realm.

Justin wrote NSIS, which is an install system widely used by smaller applications. However, it's not really better than using MSI and definitely not a good solution when it comes to automatic upgrades. Each of them has its up- and down-sides, but in the end I dropped NSIS for MSI, because it still is the more professional solution.

the older installer on the alpha didn't do that did it? or has so much changed that is not an option

The Alpha didn't support file associations at all.

[Tom]

Maybe a bad time to ask this here but what are the advantages of using an installer over a portable version beyond automatic updates? I tend to prefer using portable versions of software and find it very simple to download and extract files, then use windows file open properties to set file associations with Resonic.

First off, a portable version is meant to be exactly that: portable.

A portable version should never ever do anything that ties it to the user's system. I'm sticking to that rule with Resonic when it's running in portable mode. It can even run in per-user/per-machine portable mode (profiles/ folder, see resonicboot.ini). However, if you have your portable version on your USB stick, or wherever else, after all that's what it is meant for, and associate files with that, the associations will break once you unplug the device.

The portable version does not include any of the icons and some other features.

The setup version does quite a lot, besides registering file types, providing Explorer icons, making sure Resonic can make use of some of the fancy Windows 7/8/10 features, it also adds itself to the "Open with" lists (depending on the system Resonic won't even show up), handle MIME types, protocols, takes care of clean upgrades so you can install new versions on top of existing ones without compromising its settings, and much more. And of course, makes sure it can be uninstalled in a clean way.

I highly recommend using the setup versions of the official Resonic release builds in future (now that the associations are fixed), unless it has to be installed on a portable device (thumb drive, whatever), then the portable version is the logical choice.

The setup system is designed to enable the user to upgrade Beta/non-Beta individually and run them in parallel, even associate one file type with the Beta, the other with the non-Beta, without them messing with each other/the system. Same goes for the upcoming Pro version.

Hope that answers the question sufficiently.

[Tom]

^ Not that you have to be a supergeek or anything but I suppose it assumes people are good with that stuff too, to an avg user id reckon installers are kinda expected. one case in point recently I reccomended a search tool locate32 & it's an uncompress where you like affair portable install, matey sends me an email back, "but how tf do I install it" install being the operative word lol. I'd bet a lot of people even have trouble with installers

Absolutely right.

You wouldn't believe how many people don't get how to use installers. Not talking about the Pro segment here, but non-techie regulars.

But as I said in the post above, the setup is way, way more than just simple copy. Setup should always be preferred for fixed installations, portable for on-the-go use, Betas, or by choice (some good features are lost).

[Tom]

New setup attached to the original post.

The public release is scheduled for Sat/Sun.
Setup will no longer grab the user's file associations, reworked most of it for full control.

This build (12466) also includes several bug fixes and additions, see the screenshots attached to the original post.

[elektroinside]

New setup attached to the original post.

All good so far, including file associations: Windows 8.1, Windows Server 2012 R2, Windows Server 2008 R2, Windows 7 SP1 x64

[StevieBoy]

Right, I'll get on this, I got a day off & a couple of hours here, I will also reply to your post Tom, thanks for spending the time

[StevieBoy]

Seems to work very well, all previous annoyances seem good, even the installer looks like an installer, which is what I meant before about not being keen on the icon.

I still miss being able to have a delay before it advances. As a player thats cool you kinda want it instant, but as a browser it lacks if you are clicking around in advance mode. (fine otherwise in normal mode though, great that you don't have to double click stuff)

for going through things like sound effects for instance the advance mode is actually quite kickass, you can delete bits at will without having to click anything, going through a massive list. that's what made being able to set a delay so great as the response time to doing that to longer & shorter bits is different in actuality.

Allow multiple instances still seems not to do anything, although I can open a different version of resonic, I can't open two of the same version

[StevieBoy]

Ooh, something else I notice but could just be the intended behaviour re dragging & dropping

really cool that you can drag & drop out of resonic, makes sorting things easier

around the other way it works completely different

if you say are in one folder "Sound FX" on resonic

& you drag something from another folder for example "Kettle Drums" from explorer into the open "Sound FX" folder in resonics window

Resonic will flip to the "kettle Drums" folder & play that sound, not copy it across

as I say this might be intended, but I thought it would have been two way.

Suppose it's difficult if you want drag & drop play at the same time to have both functions.

[ThomasHelzle]

Second installer works great, remembered the non-standard install location and the settings (no controller) Nice!.

I removed all other installations (alpha and non-installer beta) and had no problem there either.

I miss the delay settings as well, but can live with it for a while

I still dream of a way to stop playback when dragging a sample to my DAW...

No real problems found so far.

Cheers,

Tom

[StevieBoy]

I miss the delay settings as well, but can live with it for a while

I suppose, I'm finding myself testing this one for a fair while & when I want to do some proper working with stuff I'm firing up the older beta to do that lol


-

also I associated the files & icons all came up correctly, the shell command works nicely then did a test uninstall & it returned everything to the way it was before, didn't have to fiddle, great stuff!

[ThomasHelzle]

I just tried the right-click actions in Windows explorer and they don't seem to work:
- Rightclick on a folder "Play in Resonic Beta" with wav files opens Resonic Beta in the last folder used with nothing playing, not in the folder selected.
- The same happens when I select "Browse with Resonic Beta".
- The only working case I found so far is when I right-click an audio file and select "Play in Resonic Beta".

Is there a way to remove these right-click options from within Resonic?

This is on Windows 8.1 x64.

Cheers,

Tom

[Tom]

- Rightclick on a folder "Play in Resonic Beta" with wav files opens Resonic Beta in the last folder used with nothing playing, not in the folder selected.

Very good find. The folder play/browse functionality is missing completely... on it.

Is there a way to remove these right-click options from within Resonic?

Not in this first Beta, I could add an option to the setup in one of the next releases. Remind me again?

[Tom]

I miss the delay settings as well, but can live with it for a while

I suppose, I'm finding myself testing this one for a fair while & when I want to do some proper working with stuff I'm firing up the older beta to do that lol

Sure the options are gone for now, but there is a fixed minimum track length set at 500ms, i.e. you get track advances that are faster than 500ms.

[ThomasHelzle]

- Rightclick on a folder "Play in Resonic Beta" with wav files opens Resonic Beta in the last folder used with nothing playing, not in the folder selected.

Very good find. The folder play/browse functionality is missing completely... on it.

Is there a way to remove these right-click options from within Resonic?

Not in this first Beta, I could add an option to the setup in one of the next releases. Remind me again?

Cool.

As for removing the right-click options: Since it is non-trivial for the user to get rid of those, I became a bit wary of software that adds them without asking. I usually have to go into the registry every now and then and remove some, when my menu becomes too cluttered...

Cheers and thanks!

Tom

[StevieBoy]

I miss the delay settings as well, but can live with it for a while

I suppose, I'm finding myself testing this one for a fair while & when I want to do some proper working with stuff I'm firing up the older beta to do that lol

Sure the options are gone for now, but there is a fixed minimum track length set at 500ms, i.e. you get track advances that are faster than 500ms.

Ah okay fair enough if you are intent on having it fixed.

The option to advance would next to useless for me (& a few others I would recommend this to) with shorter sounds fixed at such a short time, just saying. even the minimum track length of 700ms in the prev beta was really too quick for using as a browser, so found myself using track delay anyway. I do understand not everyone is going to want to use this in the way I do as an audio browser but I reckon it misses a trick without that option in there.

Doesn't bother me as I'll just continue to use the prev beta when I want usability until you decide what you are doing with that. The other stuff I can live without. I Don't mean to sound ungrateful there by the way.

Cheers

[StevieBoy]

All the time.

This happens in all walks of life believe me, cowboys get right on my nerves.

The new setup will in no case grab any of the user's file extensions ever again. It will merely register its own file types and give the user the choice to do with them whatever he wants. That also means that uninstall won't be affecting any of the user's associations.

Works lovely & as expected now, uninstalled & installed a few times

Justin wrote NSIS, which is an install system widely used by smaller applications. However, it's not really better than using MSI and definitely not a good solution when it comes to automatic upgrades. Each of them has its up- and down-sides, but in the end I dropped NSIS for MSI, because it still is the more professional solution.

Ah, I see, makes sense to go with the more professional feeling option & work around what you need to

The Alpha didn't support file associations at all.

Gotcha, kinda thought it didn't by default.

[StevieBoy]

Ooh I got thrown an External Exception E06D7363 but can't seem to recreate it. win 7 pro x64 with external FireWire sound device & onboard sound disabled

then a never ending pop up

Access Violation at address 6D777EC2 in module 'RESONICDSP.DLL' read of address 00000000.

had to shut it down with task manager as the pop ups were persistent

Only thing I think was happening was I'd added files recursively so big file list, & it was auto advancing through them & I opened up Google Chrome then it through that

I'll see if there is a log I can copy as can't send emails from that pc

edit: there was no log, was a one off though & couldn't recreate.

[Tom]

Ooh I got thrown an External Exception E06D7363 but can't seem to recreate it. win 7 pro x64 with
Access Violation at address 6D777EC2 in module 'RESONICDSP.DLL' read of address 00000000.
edit: there was no log, was a one off though & couldn't recreate.

You probably hit a damaged file Resonic's DSP core couldn't handle? That should in no case happen, but please if you encounter this again let me know. If it's on a certain file even please send me that file.

[Tom]

As for removing the right-click options: Since it is non-trivial for the user to get rid of those, I became a bit wary of software that adds them without asking. I usually have to go into the registry every now and then and remove some, when my menu becomes too cluttered... Cheers and thanks!

[StevieBoy]

Ooh I got thrown an External Exception E06D7363 but can't seem to recreate it. win 7 pro x64 with
Access Violation at address 6D777EC2 in module 'RESONICDSP.DLL' read of address 00000000.
edit: there was no log, was a one off though & couldn't recreate.

You probably hit a damaged file Resonic's DSP core couldn't handle? That should in no case happen, but please if you encounter this again let me know. If it's on a certain file even please send me that file.

Ah

will do, I've found a couple of iffy files which wont open on another drive

think it's to do with the header being corrupt, showing as 0 bytes in audio properties, was able to save a few with some success by importing them as raw data (some of which were completely different to the file name, I have no idea!)

I kept the originals, I'll try it on that & see if it throws the error again

edit no it just says unsupported file format or corrupt file, must be something else/another file

I'll keep looking